Wow what an impressive feat you have achieved with the Honda engine!
It sounds like it was a very complicated conversion! I guess not if
you are an engineer, and I am certainly not.
Anyway, thanks for the information. I did hear that Honda is starting
to make aircraft engines but I never looked into it, much less for the
Europa. I think my final decision is to go with the Rotax 912S with
the AP332 prop.
Regards,
Richard
<fklein@orcasonline.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> on 11/6/04 12:50 PM, Richard Sementilli at rsementi@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >
> > I am down to 3 choices for an engine for my Europa.
> > 1. Rotax 912S
> > 2. Rotax 914
> > 3. Jabiru 3300
> >
> > I would like to get objective opinions and actual experiences from
> > anyone about the pro's and cons of each engine.
> > My first choice is the 914 because of the all around performance but
> > more than the huge price, I am worried about the complexity of the
> > engine as it relates to maintenance and overall reliability. I have
> > spoken to a few mechanics for Rotax but none of them have any
> > experience with the 914 turbo. They all say to keep it simple and go
> > with the 912 or the 3300. I agree but I'm willing to stretch that goal
> > if feel that I could handle the burden of its complexity.
>
>
> > My most probable choice would be the 912S because it seems I can get
> > great performance (the same or better than the Jabiru 3300) with
> > relative ease of operation and mainenance, lighter weight, and
> > comparable price to the Jabiru. I've even found a mechanic that is
> > near (2 hours away) to my location. However, to the best of my
> > research, it is still a more complicated engine and drive unit than
> > the simple low reving Jabiru. It needs pump gas almost always, which
> > may not be easy to come by during cross country flights.
> > The Jabiru is the least expensive, most simple design, seems easier to
> > maintain, and is direct drive. However, it's less proven, heavier and
> > I can't find any repair facilities in the NY tristate area.
> > Am I missing any other engine possibilities that could be even a better
> > choice?
> >
>
> I forward the following at the request of Alex Bowman, amhd@shaw.ca
>
> Fred
> A194
>
> Your pros & cons re the available engines for the Europa were beautifully
> discribed. Three years ago, I too, was facing this canundrum. I discussed
> the problem with Keith Wilson while at Europa's home base in Yorkshire 1999,
> but he was not helpful. May I add to your cons re the Jabiru 3300? It
> achieves its 120 HP at an R.P.M. much too high for a propellor to be
> efficient.
>
> My final choice was a CAM 125 (Honda) developed by Firewall Forward,
> Sidney, B.C. On the con side, it is heavy. As delivered it weighed 247
> lbs. With care 17 ibs. were removed from the engine; this included parts of
> the casting pertinent only to automobiles. A smaller 35 amp alternator was
> used. I believe that the reduction unit could be reduced by 20 lbs. at
> least. A friend who has been most helpful in this conversion has designed a
> lighter version of this unit.
>
> On the pro side: We have an engine that produces 130 HP; it has VTech;
> has the legendary reliability of the Honda engine; great fuel economy and it
> uses automobile fuel.
>
> The deciding factor in the choice of this engine was that it was a four in
> line cylinder arrangement. We were able to move the engine towards the
> firewall, between the foot wells. In other words, the C of G of the CAM 125
> is 5.5" closer to the firewall than the C of G of the Rotax 914. My Europa
> carries no lead except the lead in the battery and in the flight control
> mass balances. The battery was moved rearward by approx. 30".
>
> We designed a cooling system for this engine untilizing two motorcycle
> radiators and carefully crafted ducts and exits to reduce drag and still
> provide adequate cooling. To me, this is the most satisfying portion of our
> input; this has been very successful, and light.
>
> My first flight was in May 04. My only snags were - an intermittant
> transponder and friction between the inner aspect of the ailerons and the
> flaps, in the clean configuration. My preliminary performance figures were
> derived without the use of a GPS. Now I have a Garmin 295 and will crunch
> real numbers. An incident on my way to Arlington, Washington in July 04
> caught me like a startled fawn. The throttle linkage fractured while over
> the Gulf Islands. Fortunately we had done "what ifs" in the design phase of
> our conversion, and had spring loaded the throttle butterfly to the full
> throttle position. The nearest airport was 20 miles to the stern. The
> incident happened at 2,500' south east bound. Before the 180 degree turn
> was completed, the indicated airspeed exceeded 200 mph. The landing was
> without incident, but I noted that the propeller (Airmaster) stopped with
> the ignition off when the gear and flaps were extended at 90 mph. My son
> was with me, on his first flight, and was quiet, watching things unfold -
> but not crumple.
>
> Our flaw was the design of our throttle linkage - Honda knew better. We
> acquiesed, and replaced the design with Honda's. The throttle corrections
> have been completed, and I'll fly solo until I'm certain all is well.
>
> In a previous career, I was the senior engineering flight test pilot for
> the Royal Canadian Airforce at Canadair Ltd, Cartierville, Quebec. No
> military aircraft that I flew had less snags than my wonderful Europa.
>
> Alex Bowman amhd@shaw.ca
>
> P.S. in 2002 this engine cost $12,000. US
>
> P.S. An in-flight photo can be seen on the Matronics Photoshare site, posted
> Oct. 23, '04,1852656-R1-018-7A.jpg
>
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