Company
The tone I refer to has to do with the notion [sometimes expressed, sometimes
implied] that the criticizers have no "right" to make comments which you and
other builders disagree with without giving their names, and volunteering to
become personal targets.
As regards your claim that the remarks are "slanderous", I just reviewed them,
and while I am refraining from offering legal advice in this forum, I am
comfortable with pointing out that the great bulk of the tome was questions
regarding the a/c, and a few comments regarding statements made by the
promoters. To date, I have seen several comments which attempt to excuse the
lack of accuracy in the promises [...every exaggerates...], but no challenge to
the accuracy. In the United States at least, truth is a complete defense to
slander. In other words, if the criticism is true, there is no slander.
That said, let me please try one last [I hope] time to make myself clear: I am
not attempting to pass judgement on either Europa as an organization or
aircraft, nor am I passing judgement [positive or negative] on the folks who
wrote the criticisms.
MY FOCUS IS THIS: I recognize that sometimes it is safer to make comments
anonymously than to offer oneself up as a target, and therefore see no problem
with the manner in which the criticism was offered.
FWIW, from my personal perspective, I am genuinely sorry that I ever said
anything. On the other hand, I am proud to have had the opportunity to point
out the validity of criticism, even when we may not agree with the content.
Now, could we please get back to the really fun stuff, like tailplane torque
tubes, and de-laminations...........?
At Monday 3/1/99 11:19 PM, you wrote:
>Al,
>
>What is the "tone" you allude to? Your expressed assessment of
>responses from other Europa builders seems to put them in the position
>of justifying the already unfortunate slanderous charges put forth by
>the "No Names". I think not. As I read the responses, it seems quite
>clear that the majority of builders understand and accept the vagaries
>that inevitably are part of any homebuilt aircraft experience, are
>cognizant of the design, construction, and flight issues, and yet at the
>same time are cooperatively using this forum in an active effort to
>resolve problems and help fellow Europaphites and the manufacturer to
>achieve the best possible results.
>
>Conversely, the "No Names" chose to use this forum to vent their
>criticisms, however real or perceived, in a manner that is damaging and
>counterproductive. Perhaps some will reconsider their situation and
>decide to give it another go.
>
>Jim
>
>Al Fuller wrote:
>>
>> As a potential builder [and more importantly BUYER], it is of interest to
>> me to hear of a pattern of false claims from the manufacturer. It is also
>> of interest to know that the design is troubling enough on the ground that
>> pilots experienced with conventional gear aircraft continue to find it
>> difficult-to-impossible to keep the aircraft straight.
>>
>> It is also enlightening to see group members criticizing others for:
>> [1] Having the audacity to criticize the aircraft design we have chosen to
>> favor; and
>> [2] Sending the criticism anonymously.
>>
>> The very tone of the responses so far received at this end would appear to
>> justify the caution of those offering the criticism.
>>
>> I would hope that Europa will find a way to accurately portray the
>> aircraft, the company, and the process of building what looks to be a good
>> machine.
>>
>> ....[Lurk mode restored, going to warp] .....
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> Alfonso C. Fuller, Jr. mailto:alfuller@webworldinc.com
>> Anaheim Hills, CA [Southwestern USA]
>> '89 FJ-62, mostly stock. Europa XS to be built......
>> ---------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------
Alfonso C. Fuller, Jr. mailto:alfuller@webworldinc.com
Anaheim Hills, CA [Southwestern USA]
'89 FJ-62, mostly stock. Europa XS to be built......
---------------------------------------------------
The tone I refer to has to do with the notion [sometimes
expressed, sometimes implied] that the criticizers have no
right to make comments which you and other builders disagree
with without giving their names, and volunteering to become personal
targets.
As regards your claim that the remarks are slanderous, I just
reviewed them, and while I am refraining from offering legal advice in
this forum, I am comfortable with pointing out that the great bulk of the
tome was questions regarding the a/c, and a few comments regarding
statements made by the promoters. To date, I have seen several
comments which attempt to excuse the lack of accuracy in the promises
[...every exaggerates...], but no challenge to the accuracy. In the
United States at least, truth is a complete defense to slander. In
other words, if the criticism is true, there is no slander.
That said, let me please try one last [I hope] time to make myself
clear: I am not attempting to pass judgement on either Europa as an
organization or aircraft, nor am I passing judgement [positive or
negative] on the folks who wrote the criticisms.
MY FOCUS IS THIS: I recognize that sometimes it is safer to make
comments anonymously than to offer oneself up as a target, and therefore
see no problem with the manner in which the criticism was offered.
FWIW, from my personal perspective, I am genuinely sorry that I ever said
anything. On the other hand, I am proud to have had the opportunity to
point out the validity of criticism, even when we may not agree with the
content.
Now, could we please get back to the really fun stuff, like tailplane
torque tubes, and de-laminations...........?
At Monday 3/1/99 11:19 PM, you wrote:
Al,
What is the tone you allude to? Your
expressed assessment of
responses from other Europa builders seems to put them in the
position
of justifying the already unfortunate slanderous charges put forth
by
the No Names. I think not. As I
read the responses, it seems quite
clear that the majority of builders understand and accept the
vagaries
that inevitably are part of any homebuilt aircraft experience,
are
cognizant of the design, construction, and flight issues, and yet at
the
same time are cooperatively using this forum in an active effort
to
resolve problems and help fellow Europaphites and the manufacturer
to
achieve the best possible results.
Conversely, the No Names chose to use this forum to vent
their
criticisms, however real or perceived, in a manner that is damaging
and
counterproductive. Perhaps some will reconsider their
situation and
decide to give it another go.
Jim
Al Fuller wrote:
As a potential builder [and more importantly BUYER], it is of
interest to
me to hear of a pattern of false claims from the
manufacturer. It is also
of interest to know that the design is troubling enough on the
ground that
pilots experienced with conventional gear aircraft continue to
find it
difficult-to-impossible to keep the aircraft straight.
It is also enlightening to see group members criticizing others
for:
[1] Having the audacity to criticize the aircraft design we have
chosen to
favor; and
[2] Sending the criticism anonymously.
The very tone of the responses so far received at this end would
appear to
justify the caution of those offering the criticism.
I would hope that Europa will find a way to accurately portray
the
aircraft, the company, and the process of building what looks to
be a good
machine.
....[Lurk mode restored, going to warp] .....
---------------------------------------------------
Alfonso C. Fuller, Jr.
<a href="mailto:alfuller@webworldinc.com";
eudora="autourl">mailto:alfuller@webworldinc.com
Anaheim Hills,
CA [Southwestern
USA]
'89 FJ-62, mostly stock. Europa XS to be built......
---------------------------------------------------
The Europa List is supported by Aviators Network UK -
info@avnet.co.uk
---------------------------------------------------
Alfonso C. Fuller, Jr.
<a href="mailto:alfuller@webworldinc.com";
EUDORA=AUTOURL>mailto:alfuller@webworldinc.com<x-tab></x-tab>
Anaheim Hills, CA
<x-tab></x-tab>
[Southwestern USA]
'89 FJ-62, mostly stock. Europa XS to be built......
---------------------------------------------------
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