Hi Ron,
The picture would be a problem. Th exhaust is installed now, and the damage
is almost impossible to see because there is very little clearance. One can
see the damage to the aluminum duct. The affected area must have vaporized,
as there is now an indentation. On the underside there are pinhead size
blisters, but it didn't burn right through.
I am quite sure now that this was caused by electrical discharge(s). The
duct with the radiators is completely isolated from the engine and is
probably acting as a giant capacitor, which then discharges to the nearest
metal object above. What causes the buildup of static ? I guess I will
never know. This is potentially very dangerous, and if it happened to me, it
could happen to anyone else. Someone from the factory should take
aninterest in this.
The best I can do is run a wire between duct and engine to eliminate any
static discharges.
Regards,
Karl
>From: "Ronald Parigoris" <rparigor@hotmail.com>
>To: kheindl@msn.com
>Subject: RE: Lost message
>Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 18:13:18 -0400
>
>Hello Karl
>
>If you can, I would like to see a picture. On teflon hoses, static created
>from liquid would damage the hose:
>http://www.sacskyranch.com/statichose.htm
>
>I know that airplanes with rubber boots on the lead edge of the wing can
>get full of pinholes from static discharge.
>
>I set up to fly my hot air balloon once, and was close enough to the guy
>next to me that our balloons were rubbing back and fourth that has happened
>many times before. This time the thermocouple wire that runs from the top
>of the balloon to the basket was close to the contact areas of the
>balloons. Static jumped onto the wires, and was discharging to a fuel tank
>not too far from the wires in the basket!
>
>You have exhause running through the exhaust, not beyond the realm of
>possability that the exhaust is poorly grounded and seeking ground at that
>point? I don't have a good picture, but air flowing and charging something
>could cause static as well.
>
>Try to change nothing, go flying and see if you can measure any voltage
>potential between the 2 parts.
>
>Is it possable that somehow the ignition is not well grounded to the motor,
>and jumping to ground here? I had a Kawasaki F5 and F9 that used electronic
>ignition and surface gap plugs. The surface gap plugs had a gap in the
>porecelin to allow no leakage from tip. What I am getting at is if ignition
>is finding ground where you are having problem??
>
>Please let me know resolve.
>
>Sincerely
>Ron Parigoris
>
>
>>From: "Karl Heindl" <kheindl@msn.com>
>>To: rparigor@hotmail.com
>>Subject: RE: Lost message
>>Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 20:57:06 +0100
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: postmaster@mail.hotmail.com
>>>To: kheindl@msn.com
>>>Subject: Delivery Status Notification (Delay)
>>>Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 06:07:45 -0700
>>>
>>>This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.
>>>
>>>THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY.
>>>
>>>YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE.
>>>
>>>Delivery to the following recipients has been delayed.
>>>
>>> rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>><< attach3 >>
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: "Karl Heindl" <kheindl@msn.com>
>>>To: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us
>>>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Melting silencer
>>>Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 01:48:59 +0100
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Hi Ron,
>>>
>>>Thank you for your interest. Unfortunately no pictures but it is a
>>>standard XS fwf installation (not 914).
>>>The vertical distance between silencer and duct is about 10mm. Very
>>>difficult to see when everything is installed. If I hadn't seen it with
>>>my own eyes I wouldn't have believed it. I can only think of electricity
>>>causing that intense localized heat. Of course I don't know when it
>>>happened or whether it is happening all the time. I won't be able to fire
>>>up my engine for another 2 weeks.
>>>I am taking a wild guess that if I connect a ground wire to the duct it
>>>will fix the problem.
>>>There must be someone out there who can explain this phenomenon.
>>>
>>>Karl
>>>
>>>>From: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>>>>To: "Karl Heindl" <kheindl@msn.com>
>>>>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Melting silencer
>>>>Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 23:20:04 -0000
>>>>
>>>>Hello Karl
>>>>
>>>>Do you by chance have any pictures of overall location and close up of
>>>>damage?
>>>>
>>>>Ron Parigoris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Mon, May 7, 2007, Karl Heindl <kheindl@msn.com> said:
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > No, it was a little forward of that. Think of the temperatures. What
>>>>is
>>>> > stainless steel melting point ?
>>>> > And if the heat came from the inside, why is not burned right through
>>>>?
>>>> >
>>>> > Karl
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >>From: "Duncan & Ami McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
>>>> >>Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com
>>>> >>To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>>>> >>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Melting silencer
>>>> >>Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 20:52:44 +0100
>>>> >>
>>>> >><ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>Was the "heat-stressing" opposite where one of the header pipes goes
>>>>in to
>>>> >>the silencer i.e. where hot gases directly from the end of the header
>>>>pipe
>>>> >>would impinge internally?
>>>> >>
>>>> >>Duncan McF.
>>>> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Karl Heindl" <kheindl@msn.com>
>>>> >>To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>>>> >>Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 2:17 PM
>>>> >>Subject: Europa-List: Melting silencer
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>The mod 72 has one good side benefit, it gives us the chance for a
>>>>real
>>>> >>>close inspection of the back of the engine and underneath. I had to
>>>>remove
>>>> >>>the silencer for better access to the firewall and two bottom frame
>>>>bolts.
>>>> >>>Here is what I discovered :
>>>> >>>The bottom of the silencer , starboard side, an oval area of 30x90mm
>>>>was
>>>> >>>badly pitted with strong signs of having melted. The aluminum duct
>>>> >>>directly underneath is similarly affected. I tapped the affected
>>>>area with
>>>> >>>a hammer to look for any weakness, but it appears to be still okay.
>>>>The
>>>> >>>aluminum is paper thin and needs to be patched.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>My installation is a standard 912S fwf kit with stainless exhaust
>>>>system
>>>> >>>and Singleton firewall. I never experienced any temperatures
>>>>(according to
>>>> >>>the EIS) above the permissable ranges. The EGT probes are on the
>>>>exhaust
>>>> >>>stubs of cylinders 3 and 4. I never noticed anything unusual.
>>>> >>>There is no other heat damage. The coolant pipe directly behind it
>>>>to the
>>>> >>>radiator shows no sign of anything unusual.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>My questions are:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>Has anyone ever experienced or heard of anything like this before ?
>>>>What
>>>> >>>could be the possible cause ? What is the melting point of stainless
>>>>steel
>>>> >>>?
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>There is no direct fresh air to the bottom of the engine. Some time
>>>>ago I
>>>> >>>had taped off the starboard NACA duct, as it was supposedly designed
>>>>for
>>>> >>>the 914. There was no detrimental effect to the engine temperatures.
>>>>I
>>>> >>>have now opened up the precut flap in the starboard side of the alu
>>>>duct,
>>>> >>>which will divert some fresh air to the silencer. (I believe this
>>>>flap was
>>>> >>>also designed for the 914).
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>One very long shot : Could there be any electrical sparking between
>>>>the
>>>> >>>two surfaces, acting like a capacitor ? I just don't see how those
>>>>high
>>>> >>>temperatures could come from the exhaust gases without also burning
>>>>the
>>>> >>>outside of the fuselage etc.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>I wonder if anyone knows. And any help greatly appreciated.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>Karl
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>> >>>MSN Hotmail is evolving - check out the new Windows Live Hotmail
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>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> > _________________________________________________________________
>>>> > MSN Hotmail is evolving - check out the new Windows Live Hotmail
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>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>
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