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Re: Europa-List: Votex Generators

Subject: Re: Europa-List: Votex Generators
From: D.Hetrick <gdh@isp.com>
Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 08:27:11

Phil,
Thank you very much for your insight on VG's.  Guess I had better wait until 
after you run your simulations before adding them.
Thanks again,
Dale
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "flyingphil2" <ptiller@lolacars.com>
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 2:33 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Votex Generators


>
> This is developing into quite a discussion.  I'm an aerodynamicist by 
> trade and so here's my answers to the points above:
>
> 1.  If someone wants to try VGs on a Europa then go ahead but I suspect 
> they won't make any difference.  The wing design is far more advanced than 
> those seen on www.landshorter.com which tend to be things like the Kitfox 
> etc.  VGs may improve flow over the ailerons which will make the aircraft 
> feel better at slow speeds and will improve controllability near the 
> stall.  With a poor wing design they may reduce the stall speed.  Don 
> Dykins used a lot of his (and his department's) experience in the Europa 
> wing and that was previously used on aircraft like the BAe 146 and early 
> Airbus.
>
> 2.  Graham is right about the Long Eze and the way in which the VGs 
> helped.  I guess the laminar region on the canards was probably the first 
> 25% of the chord and there was a trailing edge separation.  The Europa is 
> designed to have a larger laminar region with no separation and so the VGs 
> will not help in this case.
>
> 3.  To reduce the stall speed on the Europa you would need to have a more 
> powerful flap with maybe an additional 'flap vane' ahead of the main flap 
> or something like leading edge slats.  You could try a 'blown' wing as 
> well if you were keen.
>
> On another point:
>
> NACA intakes are designed to be an efficient and low drag intake method. 
> The edges of the intake generate small vortices which the flow down the 
> intake and they work very well indeed if positioned in the right place.  I 
> think Duncan's issue may be down to a positioning problem and you won't 
> improve the flow down that duct with a VG at high aoa if the flow isn't 
> going that way in the first place.  That brings me on to another point.  I 
> routinely run large computer simulations of external aerodynamic cases in 
> my job.  I'm quite keen to look at a Europa but need some CAD geometry. 
> The factory doesn't have any as the moulds were hand made so my question 
> is has anyone, who has too much spare time on their hands, made a good 
> quality CAD representation of a Europa?  I know there are some models 
> floating round for flight simulators but they are far too basic for what I 
> would need.
>
> Regards,
>
> Phil
>
>
> Visit -  www.EuropaOwners.org
>
>
> 



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