Hi Carl=2C
Thank you for your response and the copy of your group rules.
I agree that there are a number of ownership / operational / financial issu
es that need to be addressed when considering offering a genuine equity sha
re in an aeroplane vs a non-equity 'participation' via a private group. Th
e operational competence issue needs to be addressed regardless and the fin
ancial issue could be done via a security deposit to cover the insurance ex
cess plus other unforeseen expenses that a member incurred (eg unpaid landi
ng fees etc).
The attraction to me for non-equity membership is to mitigate the fixed cos
ts of operation whilst trying to avoid potentially messy joint ownership is
sues in the future.
Do you / anyone else know if law / regulation draws a distinction between a
ircraft on a CAA C of A and aircraft on an LAA Permit? There seem to be a
number of 'private' groups advertised in the GA media offering a non-equity
stake that seem to circumvent the "Hire or Reward" issue that you highligh
t. I had thought that provided your group was private (ie limited to membe
rs by membership) that the hire and reward issue went away.... Maybe a bit
naive!
Regards
Sean
From: carl@flyers.freeserve.co.ukTo: europa-list@matronics.comSubject: Euro
pa-List: Re: Europa-List: Non-equity member operating groups in the UKDate:
Hi Sean=2C
We operate something along the lines of what you have proposed. (I have mai
led you a copy of our group rules/ agreement)=2C however I believe that you
must be a shareholder to be a legal member of a group - ie: all members mu
st have a financial stake in the aircraft.
As far as I know there is no minimum share value specified by the CAA so we
decided that =A3500 would ensure the insurance excess is covered in the ev
ent of an accident. My understanding is that if group members did not have
a financial stake in the aircraft then the CAA would treat this arrangement
as Hire & Reward which is not permitted since a fee is being charged for t
he use of the aircraft (ie: the operating costs - hangarage and insurance e
tc).
Also whilst not compulsory=2C I think it is desirable that group members ar
e LAA members and also members of the particular flying club that you belon
g to. The insurance company will also be likely to insist that all group me
mbers have undertaken a suitable conversion course (ie the LAA training sch
eme). In view of the Europas tricky ground handling I would insist on this
regardless (sorry=2C but I have assumed yours is a monowheel - it may not b
e).
I think allowing other pilots to fly your aircraft without any sort of fina
ncial commitment is not a great idea=2C though you will no doubt get many t
akers - IMHO that is.
I would be interested to know what others in the Europa fraternity think of
such an arrangement.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: Sean O'Reilly
Sent: Sunday=2C January 04=2C 2009 6:54 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Non-equity member operating groups in the UK
I am trying to defray the cost of convenient but expensive hangarage at Red
hill by bringing in another user for my Europa. Does anyone in the UK have
experience of establishing a group for operating a Europa with non-equity m
embers=2C such that the new participant would not need to 'buy into' the ae
roplane=2C but simply pay a monthly charge and/or an hourly rate? I an ass
uming that such a thing is permitted under UK Law / CAA regulation! Any exp
erience (including benchmark rates and examples of written agreements) woul
d be gratefully received. Regards SeanReigate=2C UK
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