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Re: Europa-List: Door locked inflight by pip-pins.

Subject: Re: Europa-List: Door locked inflight by pip-pins.
From: Raimo Toivio <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:12:47
Karl,

I checked today Cessna 182 P Skyline=B4s 1976 POH and there on the page 
4-5 they say (check list before take off): " doors and windows must be 
closed and locked".

Otherwise there would be no reason for internal lock for both doors.

Just wonder that because Cessna=B4s open cannot open totally during 
flight because of airflow.
Once it opened slightly during my flight because it was unlocked. That 
was a passenger side. It was open a little and there was a cap one or 
two inches. My passenger - my wife actually - did not like that 
semi-open-door flight at all.

On the page 3-5 (emergency landing instructions) they say "unlock the 
doors just before touching the ground (!)". 

Raimo OH-XRT
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Karl Heindl 
  To: europa-list@matronics.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 5:12 PM
  Subject: RE: Europa-List: Door locked inflight by pip-pins.


    
  Raimo,
   
  Yes, I accept your reasoning, and I am surprised to read that Cessnas 
have internal locks. Their checklists probably say to not have them 
locked on takeoff and landing. My PFA inspector would not have approved 
the mod, although, my passenger door does have a pip pin lock for 
locking on the ground only. Of course, if I were to end up inverted, 
which is very likely in a trigear, in an otherwise successful emergency 
landing, it wouldn't make any difference whether doors were locked or 
not, as the doors couldn't be opened anyway, except with brute force. I 
keep meaning to get one of those emergency exit hammers just for that 
nightmare situation, and to reroute the fuel vent to the bottom of the 
fuselage.
  Regarding CO alarms, I can only recommend one which shows any presence 
of the gas in ppm, and with a high pitched alarm when a safe figure 
and/or duration is exceeded. You can get them in any hardware store.
  I had a case not long ago, when a loose exhaust pipe caused some 
carbon monoxide to leak into the cabin. On the other hand, it also 
confirmed that fumes which sometimes enter via the flap slots on landing 
did not register on the instrument.
   
  Karl


   


    

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
  From: raimo.toivio@rwm.fi
  To: europa-list@matronics.com
  Subject: Europa-List: Door locked inflight by pip-pins.
  Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 12:20:53 +0200


  "Are you serious ? In an accident, how would a potential rescuer get 
the doors open ?"

  Karl,

  I understand your point but I have thought it very carefully and I am 
very serious and happy with my always locked doors when inflight (I have 
pip-pins both side)!

  The risks of the unlocked doors when inflight are heavier than the 
risks of the pip-pin locked doors when crash landed.

  Consider this:

  1) An unthinking passenger can easily lift the lever and ask "what is 
this?". Shit happens, really.
  The pip pin prevents accidents like this - a pilot has more time to 
react and say no no no.
  The function of the pip-pin is in this case to be a retarder!

  2) Pilots=B4s or co-pilot=B4s sleeve could easily lift the lever by 
accident - pip pin prevents this.
  The guard alone is good but not 100% guaranteed. The function of the 
pip-pin is in this case to be a safety catch.

  3) Passenger side=B4s pip-pin is a good, simple and effective door 
lock when grounded.
  The function of the pip-pin is in this case to be just a lock.

  4) I have in my POH: before emergency landing remove door pip-pins.

  5) In the case of emergency landing and the doors are still locked: do 
you really think it is difficult to open the door? Just kick the window 
and it is gone, surely! For "potential rescuer" it is not a problem at 
all! It is the smallest worry in this case! Those pip-pins are clearly 
visible and understandable.

  BTW both of the C172=B4s  doors are inflight lockable. I know some 
people lock them and some do not. I locked them always when flying but 
that was for personal comfort only. When locked the lever was levelled 
and the armrest was usable. I am not sure what do they say in Cessnas 
POH - my guess is "do open the door locks before landing".

  Karl, do you accept my (serious) points? 

  Would you like to see the pick of my pip-pin equipped door lever 
guards?

  Raimo OH-XRT


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