Hi! Raimo,
Yes I concur with all you say and watch out for =9Cthe old
man=9D coming on !
I can still get my head round to see my rear port door but
there=99s no way I could reach behind but also I do know it is
properly shut when I close it anyway so I don=99t really depend on
the passenger but it gives them a thrill to be involved !
Motto is never trust anyone , that=99s why I would never have a
partner during the build .
Best regards ........and love to Marke and =9Cthe girls=9D
they must love their flying Dad. Such a pity they aren=99t older
!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bob G-PTAG
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo
Toivio
Sent: 07 February 2012 20:14
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy
Bob,
you got it =93 we are not contortionists =93 we are pilots.
At the age 50-100 it is a hard task to practise to be a contortionist
=93 pilot.
I have noticed during last years even pick up the safety belts from the
back when sitting there it not too easy (that is why I like to keep
children on the back seat =93 they can give me my belts).
Asking Co-pilot to verify is the door secured or not is a bit risky: how
can you be sure if she/he understand what you really mean?
The door rubber seals make the door a bit tight. I have noticed it is
easy to close when pressing the frame down by my elbow and same time
push the lever gently fore.
***
Total fool proof system would be if you cannot fire your engine in the
case bolts are not in.
Van=C2=B4s 12: you cannot fire the engine if the wing main pip-pins are
not correctly installed.
That is better than a note in POH or even a warning light.
Wishes,
Raimo
OH-XRT
Finland
From: Bob Harrison <mailto:ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 11:47 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy
Hi! Fred/Raimo.
I have a couple of wood =9Cpull handles=9D on the rear
portion of each door to ensure they are shut. I have to say they are
never used because I would need to be a damn contortionist to get at
them from the Europa seat positions. If Raimo=99s system is fool
proof then go for it but I use my eyes on the starboard side and ask the
passenger to check port side to verify they are closed and the bolt is
=9Chome=9D.
Over 800 hours perhaps 900 and never yet a take off with a door not
properly closed.
Regards
Bob Harrison (G-PTAG)
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo
Toivio
Sent: 06 February 2012 20:44
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy
Fred
that is true. An ideal Europa=C2=B4s weight is around 350 kgs (below 790
lbs). That is possible w/o any extra. Also, it takes time to plan and
build extra. They are also not free!
I have that extra 70 kgs (160 lbs). More is coming!
Why?
- for a good look and luxury (painting, leather, DVD, refridgerator,
heating and defrost system etc, golden register plate etc means about 15
kgs 34 lbs penalty).
- for a safety (warning systems, extra navigation, autopilot, 2nd GPS,
TCAS, alarms, horn, nav-lights, 3 strobos, landing and taxi lights,
panel and a cockpit illumination etc, real aviation safety belts x 4 etc
means about 20 kgs 44 lbs penalty).
- for a speed and efficiency (CS-prop, very finished surfaces and glossy
painting means about 20 kgs 44 lbs penalty).
- for a family (it is 2+2 seater and that was for structural reasons and
extra belts and four place intercom about 10 kgs 22 lbs penalty).
- for me and my wife (good tempur seats, some small details, decoration
etc say 5 kgs 11 lbs penalty)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------
That is all together 70 kgs and those kilos make Romeo Tango
personalized for our taste.
For me it was the best part of the building to think about all these
extras and judge what to do and what do not.
***
Door bolts warning system:
2xmicroswitch (4 is not necessary)
some wire
one led (two is not necessary)
connected to the fuse you already have
Penalty is not more than 0,1 kg = 0,225 lbs.
You will build it about 2 hours only.
And spend money let=C2=B4s say few bugs like 20 dollars.
It is a bit ackward to check rearbolts. Really. At least my body does
not want to twist to the left so much. It is dangerous to your healthy.
It is human not to do it always. But it is easy to check one green led.
Very easy!
You can still have your statement PULL DOOR INWARD BEFORE LATCHING and
then verify you have the green led.
Do it, for me please!
Raimo OH-XRT
Finland
From: Fred Klein <mailto:fklein@orcasonline.com>
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 8:31 PM
Subject: Re: AW: AW: Europa-List: Deformation of canopy
On Feb 6, 2012, at 3:06 AM, Raimo Toivio wrote:
If green (should be red then!) off means bolts are in, how can you be
pretty sure system is ok? If you loose your microswitch or led or fuse
your greens are off and you think bolts are in but maybe they are not.
All,
I have followed this thread with interest as it seems to embody the
tension between keeping things simple on one hand and fitting out our
planes sufficiently to ensure safe flight on the other.
I've paid some attention to the issue of ensuring the rear shoot-bolts
engage because when fitting the doors, I found that the rear portion of
the door seemed to spring outward just enough for the rear shoot-bolts
to miss the aluminum tubing which prevented proper closure...not good!
After sitting in the left seat...twisting my body and reaching about to
determine where I could reach in order to pull in the aft portion of the
door prior to closing the lever and engaging the shoot-bolts...I
installed a simple tab on the window frames (both port and stbd) which I
could grip and pull inward. One thing I noticed while checking out my
little ergonomics exercise was that I found that I could not feel
whether or not the shoot-bolts were properly engaged or not, nor could I
readily see likewise. The fundemental idea I took away from these
exercises was that it was essential to pull the rear portion of the
window/door inward BEFORE moving the latching handle forward.
As luck would have it, after installing the plexiglas windows, I found
that the additional weight completely eliminates the tendency for the
rear portion of the window/door to spring outward and for the
shoot-bolts to not engage; however, I have not as yet fitted the tubular
rubber seal...so perhaps the conditions may change.
My hunch at this point is that my checklist MUST include an item
stating: PULL DOOR INWARD BEFORE LATCHING.
For the moment, I'm content with that and will not add the additional
complexity of a warning light system. I've had a look at about 20
Europas and, I believe, have yet to see a microswitch/LED
installation...I'm wondering how common are such installations.
Fred
A194
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