Thanks for all the responses...I conclude that 1450 is perfectly doable.
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Sat, Jun 23, 2018 at 8:51 PM Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com> wrote:
> Will,
>
> The maximum I have taken off with is 1600 lbs. Gary Leinberger has also.
>
> I do not recommend normal operations beyond 1450 for anything resembling
> normal operations. I have a number of clients that operate at 1450 lbs.
> takeoff weight.
>
> To ferry an aircraft, or one time flight in the best of conditions,
> consider using the following guide lines:
>
>
> The CG should be narrowed slightly to 59 inches to 62inches above 1450 lbs
> takeoff weight until sure of operations with a further aft CG is verified.
> .
>
>
> I flight tested my aircraft and a couple others (including motor gliders)
> at these higher weights and found if balanced about 61-62 inches at takeoff
> weight, the handling is quite acceptable and very comfortable on cross
> country as the fuel burns off to minimum fuel. Most Europa aircraft with
> proper Annex E full control throws will fly even at the max aft CG up to
> 1450 pounds, Due to loading limits of the baggage bay, I have not been able
> to load a 1600 pound aircraft to CGs beyond 62 aft...
>
>
> Example: No other aircraft in my chapter could fly the larger linemen on
> the football team, so I did with full fuel. It was the first time I
> rotated and nothing happened. But it flew well as I had been there before
> and was confident in my and my aircrafts ability. The CG was 59 inches
> with the 350 pound pax, 190 pound flight bag, and full 100 pounds of fuel
> and a 10 pound flight bag and handling was adequate but the nose was
> definitely heavier than normal but flare out was possible at the higher
> weights
>
>
> Remember: Anything forward of 59 inches at 1450 pounds, it gets a bit too
> nose heavy to enjoy, and keeping the nose wheel off during landing is quite
> difficult for some.
>
>
> On to some guidelines:
>
> Using simple ratio and proportions one can easily stay within the design
> stress limits of the aircraft. The gear are good to 1600 pounds on a
> smooth landing as the gear were originally the RV 4 gear designed for a GW
> of 1500 lbs. for normal operations. Our gear socket in the trigear may get
> wallowed out a bit if ops on rough fields is done for many hours but it
> takes a licking.
>
>
> I use the following G limits for over gross on a placard and in the POH:
>
>
> *STRUCTURAL LIMITS: *
>
> *+3.8g / -1.9g at 1370 lbs.*
>
> Max recommended:
>
> *+3.5g / -1.79g at 1450 lbs.*
>
> Max overload condition:
>
> *+3.25g / -1.6g at 1600 lbs.*
>
>
> The CG Range should be reduced by one inch to 59 max forward, 61.5 to 62
> max aft above 1370 pounds unless tested.
>
>
> Remember the stall speed increases with weight. By calculation:
>
> Stall Clean / Dirty: 45/49 at 1370
>
> 48/52 at 1450
>
> 49/56 at 1600
>
> *Warning: The pre-stall characteristics may be significantly reduced as
> GW is increase beyond 1370 and at CGs move near the forward or aft limit.*
>
>
> Handling characteristics should be practiced at higher takeoff and landing
> weights to determine the aircrafts handling characteristics. Some ideas
> for takeoff and landing testing at these higher loadings follows:
>
>
> *Takeoff: *
>
> Lower flaps to 10 to 15 degrees max for takeoff. (Trigear) (Reduces that
> old sinking feeling if pulled out of ground effect.)
>
> Rotation speed is higher for the trigear and mono.
>
> Once pitch is set for takeoff with the nose wheel off the pavement
> (Trigear), or slight tail down pressure (Mono), do not over-rotate maintain
> a low pitch angle.
>
> Takeoff speeds are increased so plan accordingly.
>
> Maintain pitch and allow the aircraft to fly off the runway at a shallow
> angle.
>
> Accelerate in ground effect until 65 Knots and reduce flaps approaching 75
> Knots and climb at a shallow angle until desired climb speed is achieved.
>
> Consider climbing at 80-90Knots for additional cooling.
>
>
> *Landing Pattern:*
>
> Increase approach speed to 65 to70 minimum using half to full flaps.
>
>
> *Note: If using an aux tank in the baggage area, after the fuel is burned
> off and with minimum fuel in the main tank, the CG may be quite far
> forward. Do a complete analysis of the CG and its shift with fuel loading
> prior to attempting flight outside the original POH guidelines. *
>
>
> Minimum speed on final should not be reduced below 60 until in ground
> effect with a forward CG.
>
>
> *Warning: If approaching steeply at 55 Knots and at reduced power setting
> the aircraft will develop a significant sink rate that cannot be recovered
> from at forward CGs, idle power and low airspeeds. *
>
>
> Practice like you are going to fly and you will fly like you practiced.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Bud Yerly
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <
> owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com> on behalf of William Daniell <
> wdaniell.longport@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 21, 2018 7:46:54 AM
> *To:* europa-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Europa-List: Mtow+
>
> What is the maximum mtow that anyone has flown with?
>
> I am looking at the trip to usa.
>
> Aircraft without fuel weighs 930.
>
> Co pilot, pilot and 17 gals weigh 470. My aux tank with pump and 10.5
> gals weighs 75 lbs will be strapped to the wing tie bar up against the main
> tank.
>
> So we have 930+545=1485. Add liferaft 8 lbs and odd and ends and itll be
> a smidgen over 1500.
>
> I have flown with 1400lbs taking off at 8500 so I am sure that itll take
> off.
>
> What the opinion of the group on this? Anyone have any experience? Does
> anyone foresee issues?
>
> Will
>
>
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