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Re: Europa-List: Weight and balance

Subject: Re: Europa-List: Weight and balance
From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 17:18:24
I built my tri from the book without weighing anything and without paying
much attention.  The W&B turned out to be almost exactly what the book
predicted.
Whenever I have came across a heart stopping incident during the build it
was always due to a mistake or a misreading that I had made.   (and I made
quite a few)
Will

William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744


On Mon, Mar 25, 2019 at 9:51 AM <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk> wrote:

> Bill, Or trail your plane to someone who has anestablished, regularly
> checked set up for weighing  planes and starts with no preconceptions.
>
> Regards, David Joyce,GXSDJ
>
>
> On 2019-03-25 13:11, Bud Yerly wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> The only way I can imagine your main gear being forward is your landing
> gear frame may not be positioned correctly.  I highly doubt that.  I doub
t
> that the tail planes and rudder are filled with a lead based filler, and
> you probably didn't use a lead filled tail wheel so I see no way you need
> that much weight.
>
>
> Scales are a pain, I have to have mine recalibrated and certified every
> two years for about $500 and I'm tired of it.
>
> Use known weights and check proportionality of your scales.  Typically on
> the recalibration they check 250 pound increments to the scale limit.  Mi
ne
> right now stay linear, but now one is dead and, one creeps up at about 2
> pounds per second, which is disastrous amount so only one scale works now
> after doing nothing but sitting.
>
>
> Go slow, take your time, and double check.  I agree, a 40 pound counter
> weight forward of the firewall is unacceptable.  There is no part designe
d
> to take that.
>
>
> Bud Yerly
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <
> owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com> on behalf of Bill <
> europa10@bellsouth.net>
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 24, 2019 7:28:19 PM
> *To:* europa-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: Europa-List: Weight and balance
>
>
> Bud,
>
>
> I checked the measurements multiple times and also did as you noted
> below.  Still get the same measurements using your method.  Guess I've go
t
> a scale problem.  I will try some other scales with some friends at the
> airport that have weighed other planes.
>
> Also got a note from Ivan warning against putting extra weight on the
> engine so I won't be doing that.  Hopefully it's just my scales reading
> incorrectly at high weights.  I'm also going to try loading them up with
> known weights to check.
>
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
>
> Hope you have a good week at Sun-n-Fun!
>
>
> Bill
>
>
> *From:* owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Bud Yerly
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 24, 2019 6:37 PM
> *To:* europa-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: Europa-List: Weight and balance
>
>
> Rain and frontal passages this time of year is always a concern for a day
> or so.
>
>
> I don't want to insult, but make sure you are measuring the correct
> joggle.  Basically it is the cowl line.  If you are using the front of yo
ur
> cowl or the joint line for an XS that would be about an inch and a half o
ff
> if you are measuring from the joint line or cowl face.  The measurement f
or
> the zero datum is not the cowl face.  It is the original prop flange
> distance of the prototype Classic.
>
>
> The joggle on the molding of all Europas is 29.25 inches aft of the
> datum.  Level the plane at the door sill or your level data point.  Drop 
a
> plumb bob from the left and right joggle and draw a line between them.
> From that line measure 29.25 inches forward of that horizontal line and y
ou
> have the zero datum.  Measure then the main and tail wheel for the mono
> from that point.
>
>
> Recalculate your datum using the above and take a hard look at the detail
> in chapter 6 of the POH and I believe you will solve your balance issue.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Bud Yerly
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <
> owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com> on behalf of Bill <
> europa10@bellsouth.net>
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 24, 2019 3:44:19 PM
> *To:* europa-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: Europa-List: Weight and balance
>
>
> Bud,
>
>
> Thanks for the response.
>
> Don't guess I'll get to stop by Sun-n-Fun this year as the boss has said
> NO even though we will be close going through Tampa on the 6th....
>
> Hope it doesn't flood you out like last year.
>
>
> Here's what I've got:
>
>
> 912ULS
>
> Monowheel Classic with tail wheel mod and 1370 lbs. mod.
>
>
> With the plane level, using the front face of the cowling as station 0 pe
r
> the manual.
>
> Tail wheel at station 208 (78.5 lbs.)
>
> Main wheel at station 46 (Manual says it should be around 47 to 47.5.
> I've checked and doubled checked but still get 46 inches.) (683 lbs.)  Th
at
> extra 1 =93 15 inches would sure make a difference.
>
> Battery on top of the passenger foot well.
>
> Nothing in the rear other than ELT and strobe power supply under baggage
> bay.
>
>
> I've checked the scales and they appear to be weighing correctly but will
> check again.  They weigh correctly with me on them.
>
>
> I just finished a bracket that bolts to the gear box and plan on adding 3
0
> lbs. there to balance things out and keep CG within limits for most fligh
t
> configurations.
>
>
> I will probably take it to the airport and get some of my buddies to
> double check me with another set of scales.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
>
> *From:* owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Bud Yerly
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 24, 2019 2:54 PM
> *To:* europa-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: Europa-List: Weight and balance
>
>
> It is rare to have a Rotax 912S or 914 tail heavy.
>
> If your aircraft has a very light panel, a 912 (80HP) no exhaust muffler,
> is equipped with a light weight wood prop and the battery in the rear, I
> would expect that may happen.
>
>
> (Typically a mono tail wheel weight is around 80 pounds.  Your 30-40
> pounds sounds like you put in S-Tec servos from 1970 in the rear, made co
m
> wire and antenna out of #2 cable to get that heavy.  Also, a Deutz tracto
r
> gasolator (about 10 pounds) from 1965 added also would increase the tail
> weight that much.)
>
>
> Solutions:
>
> Move the battery in the rear to the pax footwell.
>
> A constant speed propeller is expensive but ideal if you need weight.
> Airmaster 332 3 blade 26 pounds)
>
> If you added heavy structure for autopilot servos that weighs 10 pounds
> apiece, get rid of them.
>
>
> Finally:
>
> Recheck your scales.  (I always stand on mine each to make sure each scal
e
> is dead on and still calibrated well right before I weigh.)
>
> Always make sure the tare weight of structure raising the tail to level
> flight is subtracted out.  Check the math.
>
> Make sure the fuel tank is empty.
>
>
> Keep us posted.  It's probably just a math and weight error.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Bud Yerly
>
> Custom Flight Creations
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <
> owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com> on behalf of Bill
> <europa10@bellsouthnet>
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 24, 2019 7:15:28 AM
> *To:* europa-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Europa-List: Weight and balance
>
>
> Hello everyone,
>
>
> After 20+ years I am now close to finishing my monowheel classic.
>
>
> Initial weight and balance shows the aircraft is tail heavy and needing 3
0
> =93 40 pounds of weight added in the engine compartment to get the 
CG where I
> want it.  The current empty weight is 801 pounds.
>
>
> I would like to ask what others have experienced, where they added
> weights, etc.  Currently I'm planning on adding weight on top of the Rota
x
> gear box as there are available bolt holes and room for the weight (5x5
> steel bar).
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
> N51EU
>
> Europa Monowheel Classic
>
>


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