Based on recent threads, I just ordered a one quart kit of Araldite 420
A/B from Graco Supply in Texas, (817) 535-3200. $187.50 per quart
(ouch) + shipping (around $20). At least it's available and fresh.
Dan Geldermann
A-139
Virginia
----- Original Message -----
From: jimpuglise@comcast.net
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 3:00 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Aeropoxy 6228
Greg-
Before you order from Belgium, you may want to Google it and see what
you can find in the US. I just did and "Aerotape" in Orlando, FL comes
up and they list Huntsman on their web site. I did not call, but it
would certainly be worth researching before you go the long way.
Jim Puglise A-383, Punta Gorda, FL
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "gregoryf.flyboy" <gregoryf.flyboy@comcast.net>
Looks like this thread has died down, so..
Thankyou Brian and Nev. This is good information. Nev, the
description on your test results was refreshingly invaluable. It is info
that is hard to come by. I saw the original thread from Brian on the
Matronix server concerning the independent testing being done by Andy
Draper, but never saw the results on the server.
I had a personal email response from Andy about a year ago, that I
just looked at, concerning the different epoxy manufactures (I had
almost forgotten I had this). In there, was the same response in the
structural adhesive section of the email: " We have found that none of
the Aeropoxy or Hysol products compare favourably with Araldite/Epibond
420 (formerly Redux 420)."
Because of the cost and hassle in getting the A/E 420 here in the
states, I had been starting to lean towards Aeropoxy 6228, but it now
seems that until I can get an adhesive that is known to be at least
equivalent or better in all tests, its going to have to be
Araldite/Epibond for me. My order of 1.4Kg 2-part Araldite 420 kits (QTY
3) is now in process. (albeit it is back-ordered) Hopefully, it
will be enough. If most everyone has used more, let me know now, to
avoid multiple export/import tariffs and taxes that would be on the
second order (and to help keep me from being tempted to going back to
Aeropoxy 6228 (which has been used successfully by at least one (and I
suspect many) builder already, on parts of the wing or windscreens, not
to mention the Velocity).
Hopefully soon, the stalled sections of the build can commence.
Thanks again. I know all this will be useful to future builders,
since I beat myself up, over this decision.
Greg Fuchs (A050)
Tigard (Portland), Oregon
Tail Kit, looking ahead, but not yet moved to wing/fuselage
(transporting them to my build location tomorrow)
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Aeropoxy 6228 ~ NEV?
In a message dated 13/04/2007 16:00:08 GMT Standard Time,
EuropaXSA276@aol.com writes:
I have been most interested in this product. The Aeropoxy rep at
Sun N Fun had told me the it was under testing by Europa as a
replacement adhesive a few years back.
I talked with Andy a year later, at Sun n Fun inquiring about the
testing. He replied that the product did not hold up to his
expectations. Therefore it was never "approved".
I most certainly would like to know more about the testing and
what issues were found. The 6228 has cost and accessibility benefits.
Perhaps Nev could fill us in on the subject?
Hi Brian et all,
The Aeropoxy adhesive is NOT suitable as a replacement for Redux /
Araldite 420 in use on a Europa.
Tests I carried out way back when , back to back, with Aeropoxy and
420 showed the Aeropoxy to be far too brittle.
Lap joint test samples were made useing the pre preg laminates as in
the fuselage / wing skins, same materials / same sizes / same surface
preparation / same cure cycle / with both adhesives. Did 10 of each from
memory?
Didn't need to get them scientifically strain tested [ by Slingsby,
which is what we had done with various lay up resins] a simple blow with
a hammer on one end of the tab , with the other end clamped in a vice
showed that the Aeropoxy bonded ones let go every time, whereas the 420
bonded ones would take one hell of a beating before eventually the pre
preg would fail.[ Same hammer ! ]
The make up of the 420 includes rubber granules, so there is a fair
amount of '' give '' in the bond.
This is allways a good test to check if the 420 has '' time lifed
''. [ in spite of the very conservative expiry date set by the
manufacturer ] If the bond fails, bin it, if the glass fails, it is
still good.
I also tested a couple of other adhesives [ at different times ]
against the 420, similar results.
If there had been a suitable replacement to 420, it would have been
used in the U.S.A. as we had a lot of hassle getting the 420 shipped
over [ Dangerous Goods and all that !]
Don't experiment and risk your life, just to save a few bucks ?
Cheers,
Nev.
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