Bill,
I have stalled my plane power on, power off, full flaps, and clean. We
have never felt a wing drop. I use the standard Europa stall warner
and it works well. I suspect as David points out that in the very slow
or heavy turn would be the only way to get her into the spin.
BTW: I slip Gold Rush quit frequently and it works well to drop it in.
Just my two cents ;o)
Jeff R. N128LJ Gold Rush
I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is
like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the
handle.
-- Winston Churchill
On Aug 3, 2010, at 11:23 AM, David Joyce wrote:
> >
>
> Bill, I have only stalled my own mono XS Europa, but that I have
> found is very benign in the stall in all configurations. The only
> time that I have got into the start of a spin was when I
> deliberately stalled it in a steep turn - for the experience. It
> went very quickly into a spin, but that corrected itself
> instantaneously with opposite rudder and easing the stick forward.
> Otherwise a straight & level stall with flaps/gear down and the
> plane balanced is a non event, with little tendency to drop a wing
> and instantly sorted by letting go the stick. I find it entirely
> well behaved in doing a full rudder side slip with flaps down for a
> PFL.
> I would suspect that the same would apply to any XS as
> long as the wings have gone on at the same rigging angle, and the
> builder hasn't chosen a Cof G too far aft. Classics of course have
> much more wing shape variability and it might be that individual
> ones are less well behaved. However my guess is that most stall spin
> accidents have little to do with the stall characteristics of the
> aircraft, but more to do with the enormous work load associated with
> an engine failure shortly after take off, It is all too easy to
> inadvertently be helping the turn round with excess rudder whilst
> losing sight of the airspeed, because you are stressed big time and
> desperately trying to work out several other things in your mind.
> If you can get a ride in someone else's Europa (or when
> yours is built)and go up to a safe height I think you will be
> pleasantly surprised at how nicely it stalls and sideslips with full
> flap. You will also probably find that the ground run on landing
> barely exceeds 100metres, and much the same on take off if you have
> 912S or 914, and a VP prop and are not too hot/high/heavy!
> Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "William McClellan" <wilwood@earthlink.net
> >
> To: <Europa-List@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 4:50 PM
> Subject: Europa-List: Stall spin characteristics
>
>
>> >
>>
>> I understand that the Europa is very prone to abruptly dropping a
>> wing, trying to enter a spin, when stalled with full flaps in the
>> landing configuration. On the other hand, in the clean, unflapped
>> configuration the stall is very benign. I wonder if this is true
>> of all Europa's or only some depending on the particulars of that
>> builders end product and possible modifications. I have nearly
>> 1000 hrs in a Citabria with very much of it flying into short
>> "backcountry" dirt strips requiring significant STOL
>> characteristics. I don't have flaps so regularly use severe
>> straight and banked slips. The Citabria is a "dirty" plane
>> compared to the "very clean" Europa so I believe the use of severe
>> slips in the Europa is never warranted. My experience with very
>> clean planes, I also have 1000 hours in my high performance glider
>> and since the air brakes work so well, severe slipping is not
>> needed...though some less than ultra clean gliders, ie, trainers,
>> can make use of severe slipping!
>> . It seems likely that Cliff Shaw's accident was a result of this
>> abrupt spin stall characteristic in landing configuration. I have
>> a rule (though not unique), "never skid a turn", keeping a nice
>> margin above stall. It seems that the Europa (and probably all
>> super clean planes, for instance the Cirrus), have a propensity to
>> severe stall spin in landing configuration. I understand that many
>> Europa pilots land with an airspeed up to 65 but this uses a
>> greater landing distance considering the stall speed is in the
>> 40's. Europa's original touted mission was short field, pasture
>> strips. For those who often use this short field capability, I
>> would like to know the particulars to make the Europa perform
>> safely in this manner. Not having piloted a Europa, but am close
>> to finishing my build, I am curious to these questions.
>> Bill McClellan
>>
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