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Re: Europa-List: Europa fuel system - is it suitable for MOGAS with etha

Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa fuel system - is it suitable for MOGAS with ethanol?
From: Hal Carpenter <wtcef@arn.net>
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 20:37:47
Hi Bud,
Thanks for all this good information.  We have used Ethanol free mogas
almost exclusively...locally....trips are a different story as most
airports don't keep mogas let alone e free gas.  So, we carry lead binding
solution.
Anyway, what about the fuel caps?  Have they been shipped out yet?
Hal Carpenter-Amarillo, TX

On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 8:11 PM, Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com> wrote:

>
> Gordon,
> At the shop we have seen the results of up to 10% ethanol in MOGAS.
>
> I did a paper on the pros and cons of MOGAS vs AVGAS.  See my website:
> www.customflightcreations.com/sitebuildercontent/
> sitebuilderfiles/ethanol.pdf
>
> Effects ethanol on the Europa are summarized and editorialized below:
>
> The fuel tank is unaffected by ethanol (or alcohol) of any type.  The
> "plastic tanks" are not as prone to water condensation as metal tanks are.
> Note:  Ethanol absorbs water, so read below.
>
> The fuel filler neck (that 57 degree black rubber hose between the tank
> and the FS18 cobra neck inlet tube) tends to harden with ethanol laced fuel
> when the tank is filled well into the neck.  It also tends to stink.
>  Using 2 inch aluminum pipe bent or welded to the proper angle and trimmed
> close the the plastic tank and FS18, cures this.
>
> The Red stripped fuel hose used on the fuel tank bosses are fine,
> especially if you change the hoses every 5 years anyway.  When installed
> properly, the hose doesn't contact the fuel.  I've been known to use
> ProSeal 890 to seal the aluminum to tank boss gap then put the hose on to
> assure a good seal.
>
> The Redux used to secure the coarse screens in the tank fuel fittings
> tends to get brittle with exposure to ethanol.  About the 10 year point or
> so it's really crumbly.  It may be a good idea on the 5 year hose change to
> pull these fittings and inspect /replace the Redux.  Since ethanol laced
> fuel cannot be used in ANY fiberglass tank (epoxy or polyester) that
> problem should be expected.  Pro Seal (PPG 890) fuel sealant will soften
> with ethanol but holds up well with up to 10 percent ethanol.
>
> Fuel delivery lines should be of the newer SAE J30 R-9 or better.  In the
> US, the EPA carb fuel lines (now a SAE J30 R 14 or better (incorporates a
> synthetic flourelastomer liner) have proven to be quite reliable.  The fuel
> hose has an inner liner and a normal outer rubber with fiber reinforcement
> in the rubber section and works well on barbed fittings.  The fuel smell
> does not permeate these lines.  Caution, do not over tighten these lines
> with your hose clamps.
>
> The braided fuel hose sold by Aeroquip is not double lined and tends to
> permeate the smell through the lines over time, but I only use them in the
> mono wheel well, and have no smell problems with the MOGAS as the wheel
> well is ventilated.  Everywhere else in the mono, I use an SAE J30 R-14
> line. IF USING MOGAS WITH AEROQUIP RUBBER LINES, change them at 5 years as
> although they seem fine with ethanol up to 10%, they do harden over time.
>
> Teflon fuel lines are fine, but know your fuel line.  PTFE fuel lines
> crack just like the tank does with flexing.  Do not bend them beyond their
> radius. Use only proper fittings, and in our experience, these lines take a
> set after a few years.  If removed and bent from their original shape
> during re-installation, test them as they do crack easily if flexed.
> Nothing lasts forever, so I tend not to use these lines as they are
> expensive to purchase and make, and over time have proven to be fragile...
>
> The fuel pumps are OK as the Facet pumps for the 912 Series can handle up
> to 10% ethanol.  The Piersburgs fail about every 5-7 years in some way  so
> I can't verify the 914 pumps over time.
>
> The Rotax engine and its components is fine with fuel with up to 10%
> ethanol.  Mechanics have concerns about flying with ethanol of 10% due to
> vaporization. Read on below.
>
> Many have commented on and shared their own experiences with ethanol laced
> fuel in the past.  Do your research.  My clients get shown a video we did
> on ethanol  effects on a 914 and its tank from an aircraft that sat for six
> months with a half a tank of MOGAS with 10% ethanol gas.  It is sobering.
>
> Here are the problems I have experienced:
>
> Ethanol laced fuel should not be stored in the aircraft for any longer
> than 30 days.  Especially if in low temp high humidity conditions such as
> winter. Water condenses in the fuel over time and once the ethanol reaches
> water saturation, a layer of nasty scum forms  in the water on the bottom
> of the tank.  This is some sort of fungus by the looks of it and quite
> tough to clean out.
>
> Even if the aircraft was properly decommissioned at the end of the flying
> season, pull the carb float bowls, clean them, re-commission the engine and
> prep for startup.
>
> Ethanol fuel will also affect the oil so be sure to put new oil in at the
> end of the season, fog the cylinders and turn the engine over to keep the
> gears and cylinders coated.
>
> When in doubt or buying a used aircraft, fuel lines which do not meet the
> current fuel permeation standards tend not to leak but do allow the fuel
> scent to permeate through the lines and smell up the aircraft (so you think
> you have a leak) and are brittle or cracked on the ends, so do yourself a
> favor and replace them.
>
> Rotax 91X engines:
>
> Ethanol will corrode the carb bowls if the fuel is left to sit for a few
> months (many manufacturers say degradation begins in less than 30 days).
> The aluminum coating in the float bowls actually flakes off the bottom.
> This particulate causes premature wear in the main and needle jets and can
> clog the jets.
>
> The 912S and 914, with the higher octane rating requirements, are fine
> with fresh MOGAS fuel.  However,  six month old premium fuel in Florida or
> wet climates will absorb water, to saturation and will lower the ethanol
> content and octane.  I have never had a problem with detonation or pinging
> at high power after the aircraft has set in the hanger up to 30 days.
> Plugs look good over 50 hours of engine operation at cruise operation and
> local flying. (Sorry, but I change plugs every annual and typically average
> only 50 to 100 hours per year, and since plugs are cheap, I don't clean
> them.)
>
> Flying with fresh ethanol MOGAS has not been a problem.  Up to 10K we have
> had no problems with vaporization, detonation or misfires over various
> power settings ranging from max power down to 65% power.  Some reliable
> sources have commented that after landing on a cross country fuel stop,
> fuel vaporization has prevented  engine start.  I have not had the problem
> as we properly shield and run our fuel lines clear of heat sources and
> always use fresh fuel.  We do Young Eagle orientation flights and have
> found on hot summer days, engine restarts between two and three flights
> have been problem free.
>
> Bottom line is, don't leave ethanol laced fuel in the system over a month
> (my opinion) and if the plane is to be stored for any length of time (over
> 30 days), use a fuel stabilizer and run it through the engine to assure the
> fuel additive fills the float bowls.  Even if the aircraft was properly
> decommissioned at the end of the flying season, pull the carb float bowls,
> clean them, re-commission the engine and prep for startup.    Drain the
> MOGAS and refill with fresh fuel.
>
> OR, drain or burn off the ethanol MOGAS and fill completely with 100LL
> AVGAS.  It is fairly easy to just use AVGAS in your last couple of tanks of
> the year then ad a fuel stabilizer if you like, and put the covers on the
> plane until flying again.  Some aviation fuel suppliers say that 100LL does
> lose some of its lead and should not be used if stagnant in the tanks for a
> year, but Shell Aviation experts says properly stored and free of water,
> AVGAS lasts for years with no degradation.
>
> I do not use ethanol fuel in my 914 any longer as our local MOGAS fuel
> suppliers can only supply 92 octane, and can't guarantee it being that high
> after only a short period of time.  I do not leave even AVGAS in my tank
> for over six months  without pumping out a large amount to assure the
> bottom of the tank, filters and float bowls are clean, and the fuel has the
> right color, odor and cleanliness.  I change oil every 25 hours with AVGAS
> and use a fuel additive (Decalin) to keep the lead in suspension.  Works
> Great.  The fuel price difference and extra oil cost is made back in
> consistent engine operation and piece of mind.
>
> Best Regards,
> Bud Yerly
> Custom Flight Creations, Inc.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "GBWFH2010" <gaxuk2001@gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 6:38 PM
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Europa-List: Europa fuel system - is it suitable for MOGAS with
> ethanol?
>
>>
>> It is getting difficult to obtain ethanol-free MOGAS in the UK. Given
>> that Rotax equipped microlights in the UK have been operating using MOGAS
>> containing ethanol for several years, seemingly without incident, the
>> indications are the CAA/LAA may be willing to grant dispensation for
>> ethanol based fuel on a type by type basis.
>>
>> We know the Rotax 912 is approved for up to 10% ethanol and the fuel
>> pipes and connectors in our Europas are the same as many microlights, so in
>> theory these would appear to be suitable, but my question is does anybody
>> know if the Europa fuel tank is ethanol resistant? If it is we may be able
>> to get clearance to operate on MOGAS with ethanol.
>>
>> Of course whenever possible it would always be preferable to use ethanol
>> free fuel, but it would be good to have the flexibility to operate legally
>> on MOGAS with ethanol when necessary.
>>
>> --------
>> Gordon Grant
>>
>> G-BWFH
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=434794#434794
>>
>>
>>
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>
>


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