HI! All
When I was inflicted with this damned problem Europa offered to supply a
piece of slightly larger metal to butt up to the piece that was too short to
contain all the drilled holes to mount the rear lift pin sockets.
I insisted that I should replace the entire piece which was incorrectly
positioned and they obliged.
To remove the offending piece and also enlarge the resulting depression to
receive it I used a wood router (very carefully ) positioned within a
captive mask /guide , my local friends also used the same method.
Suffice it to say the removed metal , when so thin it could be peeled out,
was certainly NOT PRE ABRAIDED TO GIVE A GOOD BOND ANYWAY.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Kit 337
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bud Yerly
Sent: 02 June 2013 18:14
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 06/01/13
Greetings Tony,
Moving the plates isn't all that bad but you are right in it takes time and
patience. As for covering up your "curves" I prefer to see you fill with
an epoxy filler. Personally, if a customer mucks up the wood shims, I fix
it with Redux, set the socket and put peel ply around the edges of the taped
up socket. Peel the socket off smooth and glass it up. Cover with your
glass and peel ply well. Works fast and easy. Redux is as good as ply and
with the extra glass on top it is bulletproof. To fill, you can use your
expand cell with epoxy supplied in the kit. Make it good and thick. I know
that it takes longer, but here is the reason:
Polyester resin and fillers will de-bond from epoxy. The rule is nothing on
epoxy but epoxy or polyurethane paint. If polyester filler is used, it
grips to rough surfaces and is best on metal , primer, or other polyester.
Vinylester sticks to poly, and epoxy sticks to everything that is dry (no
greasy poly please).
In experiments with my painter, polyester pops off epoxy gelcoat or weave
(heat cured or not) in about a month unless sanded very course, but watch
the edges, they are what de-bonds. All the filler MSDS sheets indicate do
not put poly on epoxy. Vinylester is a different animal. It is a long
molecule but not as long as epoxy. It will stick but will flake off with
bending. I have Evercoat Rage Vinylester filler on one of my flaps as an
experiment and have had no problem after 5 years. But the Evercoat folks
tell me it will eventually peel.
Caution: Any filler or even glass tape with a raw edge will lift when
painted with urethane. Always make sure you have a wet edge and peel plied
in a stress area like a wing walk area or it will show a crack. Will it
peel all the way, no but the inspection will have you grinding on a newly
finished airplane.
As a general rule:
Fill with epoxy/expand cell, finish the smooth out with a sanding block to
about 150 grit then prime. I fill pinholes by using Dupont 2K type filler
primer but any will do. Any further minor imperfections in our experience
are filled with a good quality glazing filler such as 3M, over the primer to
fill those small imperfections. Keep it very thin. It sticks well, is fast
and is easy to prime/sand/fill/prime to a perfect finish.
Stay away from resin and talc as it is heavy and will peel off epoxy.
I hate to do wheel pants and the transitions. I swear it is faster to fill
the fuselage completely than wheel pants because of all the small curves.
Once my glass work is done, I fill initially with expand cell and sand for a
day. Once reasonably close, I prime, and break out the Rage. By the end of
the day, I am ready to prime. I prime and spot fill/prime and shoot the
polyurethane.
The cowl and doors are a baked ester resin, so Rage works on small dings
pretty well.
Regards,
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: Tony Renshaw <mailto:tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2013 6:08 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 06/01/13
Gidday,
Thanks to Richard Wheelwright, Richard Collings, and Ron Parigoris for their
replies regarding TE Lift Pin Sockets. I had to move all 4 of my lift pin
socket plates from the sides of the fuselage, due to them being in the wrong
position, and no, my dimensions are correct. A bunch of other builders, well
at least one other, have had to move plates. So, the rear plates were
extracted and moved from the outside due to access with the cockpit module
in the way. Suffice to say I have a buildup over the plates that whilst over
the top of the plates it is flat, as you migrate outward, I have multiple
plies of cloth including the mandatory 4 plies of BID for reinforcement. So,
whilst I like curves of the feminine sense, I hate them otherwise. I've got
curves going off in all directions and I'm just hopeless at the trial and
error of shaping ply. I have an admission, I love car bog. Polyester resin
mixed with talc. Easy to sand, easy to shape. I am wondering if rather than
ply I coul!
d apply car bog over the plate area, shape it nicely, and then layup over
the top of it. It aint going to crack away or migrate anywhere as it is
captive by the BID, and should remain "in"compressible, certainly no more
than ply. Or, if the car bog is the issue, why not apply it, shape it,
splash it, fill it with redux and flox, and redux it back on? I can build
most of the kit but when it comes to multiple fit and sand, fit and sand,
etc, I know most will think it an easy thing, but I struggle and simply
don't enjoy it. So, any other options??
Regards
Tony Renshaw
Whingy Aussie
On 02/06/2013, at 5:01 PM, Europa-List Digest Server
<europa-list@matronics.com> wrote:
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
>
>
> From: Richard Wheelwright <rpwheelwright@yahoo.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rear Trailing Edge Lift Pin Socket Mounting
>
> Tony,=0A--- Depending on the thickness you need. I used waste from th
> e tri-gear leg sockets ribs. I cut a 2 1/2 inch circle with a hole saw,
the
> n it was cut down through its edge at the angel needed to contour the side
> of the fuselage. Worked a treat.=0A=0A===========
> =========0A=0ARichard Wheelwright=0A======
> ==============0A =0A=0A__________________________
> ______=0A From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com
<mailto:tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com%3e=0ATo> >=0ATo: europa-list@m
> atronics.com =0ASent: Saturday, 1 June 2013, 9:17=0ASubject: Europa-List:
R
> ear Trailing Edge Lift Pin Socket Mounting=0A =0A=0A--> Europa-List
messag
> e posted by: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com
<mailto:tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com%3e=0A=0AI> >=0A=0AI would like to r
> equest advice regarding methods of shaping the ply inserts for the rear
Tra
> iling Edge Lift Pin Sockets if anyone has digressed from the manual,
either
> by material/medium or method. Thanks.=0ARegards=0ATony Renshaw=0ASydney Au
> ==================
>
> ________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
>
>
> From: "richard" <rcollings@talktalk.net>
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rear Trailing Edge Lift Pin Socket Mounting
>
> I did the same as Richard W , I drew a circle on a piece of the 12mm
> plywood the same dia as the bracket tried it in place with the wings in
> position then once I had the thickness correct blended out from the
> bracket circle to the edge this made the outside dia about 3 1/2 inches
> . Then glue and glass as per manual. Good luck Richard C
>
> From: Richard Wheelwright
> Sent: Saturday, June 1, 2013 9:55 AM
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rear Trailing Edge Lift Pin Socket Mounting
>
> Tony,
> Depending on the thickness you need. I used waste from the tri-gear
> leg sockets ribs. I cut a 2 1/2 inch circle with a hole saw, then it was
> cut down through its edge at the angel needed to contour the side of the
> fuselage. Worked a treat.
>
> ==================
>
> Richard Wheelwright
> ==================
>
> From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>
> Sent: Saturday, 1 June 2013, 9:17
> Subject: Europa-List: Rear Trailing Edge Lift Pin Socket Mounting
>
>
> <tonyrenshaw268@gmail.com>
>
> I would like to request advice regarding methods of shaping the ply
> inserts for the rear Trailing Edge Lift Pin Sockets if anyone has
> digressed from the manual, either by material/medium or method. Thanks.
> Regards
> Tony Renshaw
> Sydney st"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Listhttp://fo
> rums.matronbsp; nbsp; -Matt com/contribution"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
>
> ________________________________ Message 9
_____________________________________
>
>
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rear Trailing Edge Lift Pin Socket Mounting
> From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us
>
>
> Hi Tony
>
>
> "anyone has digressed from the manual, either by material/medium or
> method."
>
>
> Here's how I did it:
>
>
> http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=31838
>
>
> Ron Parigoris
> p; Features Chat, http://www.matronnbsp;
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List> via the Web
title=http://forums.matronics.com/
href="http://forums.matronics.com";>http://forums.matronics.com
_p; generous bsp;
title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution";>http://www.matronics.com/c====
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